Nick Wagner - Latest Comments

Re: Liturgy: The Good News (Mar. 7)

Eleanor Cuenco — Wed, 14 Mar 2012 14:43:38 -0000

This class has given
me a better understanding of how I worship and what it means to be a baptized
Catholics. This class was an eye opener
for me. It has taught me to appreciate
and enjoy the liturgical celebration of the Mass. This class has led me to that “edge of chaos”, where I found an
inner conversion that changed me and redirected my priorities in life to become
a better Christian and become a more productive member of our community. What I have learned from attending this
class pave the way for me to seek more, and find that what I do daily, how I
interact with others, how I worship and pray conforms with the liturgy. I thank
Nick for making this class fun while learning, and my fellow students for the
wonderful sharing of thoughts and great ideas that we all truly enjoyed. And to
Diana, who was also a great resource person who made this class all the more
fruitful for all of us. A big thank you
and blessings to everyone.

Re: Liturgy: The Good News (Mar. 7)

Drewdiane — Wed, 14 Mar 2012 09:00:01 -0000

It is with sadness that this course comes to an end. I have completely enjoyed meeting new people and learning so much about what liturgy is all about.
Nick and Diana have done an excellent job of opening up the door to new understanding of how our liturgy works in the Catholic church. I have learned so much and will take that knowledge with me on my spiritual, pastoral path, wherever that leads me. Thank you both. I will never look at our mass again in the same way.

Regarding the question for this particular class, what is the relationship between good liturgy and social justice, I can honestly say that if the liturgy is well done, the seed for social justice follows as the parishoners leave the mass. If the parishoners are fed spiritually, they leave the mass with an intention to proclaim the Good News to their peers. Putting into action small acts of social justice, recognizing the marginalized and having a direct impact on them in some way.

Regarding the learning plan I developed in the beginning of this course, I must say I have met the goals I had set. Since I started my goals by stating I was in the beginning process and wanted to better understand the mass by taking this class I have a place where I have a better understanding and appreciation of good liturgy.

Now I realize the process is ongoing, and I am open to learning more about my catholic faith and liturgy, as each liturgy is different and you grow aftrer each mass. I would like to learn Spanish to better use my knowledge of liturgy in this diocese and plan to take Spanish this spring.
I believe that when I feel spiritually uplifted, and have that sense of being completely nourished by the word and the relationships I have developed within my parish I have achieved my goal. I realize I may not have "arrived" completely, but I feel I am on the right path. I look forward to a wornderful journey of faith and look forward to meeting new people along the way.

It has been a complete joy taking this class. Thank you all and God bless.

Re: Liturgy: The Good News (Mar. 7)

Rose Lue — Tue, 13 Mar 2012 23:55:14 -0000

I have come very far in my learning and understanding about liturgy. As I've mentioned before, I've come from why would anyone want to join our Catholic Church to feeling comfortable and feeling the call to invite people to our church. I also feel I can now have a discussion with anyone who might ask "why do I have to go to mass?" or might say comments like "mass is so boring".
I have also come up with a plan of breaking open the word with my children before mass using the children's lectionary. I am very grateful to Nick, Diana, and the rest of you for the wonderful discussions on liturgy. Thank you to ILM for offering this class. I hope every Catholic gets a chance to take this class!

Blessings to all as we part. I hope to plan a reunion six months from now and have a chance to check in and see how things are going with everyone. :-)

Re: The Liturgical Books (Feb. 29)

Drewdiane — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 21:35:57 -0000

Hello Nick, Diana and Fellow Classmates

It is hard to imagine not coming to class "to break open our lives so that God can rush in with forgiveness, peace, hope and life" through the many thought provoking sessions, and readings orchestrated by Nick and Diana. I am forever changed by this session where I have come to fully understand what liturgy really is. What it truly means.

How is liturgy "contained" in the rituals of the church? How is liturgy something more than the rituals of the church? Liturgy is carefully mapped out by the various rituals of the church. Each part of the mass has an interlocking impact on the next part. We come together as community, singing praise together to God, reflecting on how we may not have lived to our fullest potential.over the past week, or month. We come together to hear God's word, really listen as it is proclaimed, how it effects our lives, how can we be changed by the Word. We listen to the second part of the liturgy, remembering the paschal mystery, and fully participating, acitively and consciously. Each day is a new experience threrefore each liturgy is new experience. As Nick as said before, after each mass you are changed. I believe each liturgy is a new challenge at times, but we learn that we can surrender to God, if we choose to be obedient to him, trust in the plan he has for us, and let his will be done> It is then our responsibility to put what we have learned from his word into action in our community and our own personal lives.

Learning more about liturgy has been difficult, understanding fully why we do what we do at the mass, but as is written in scripture, we are refined like silver in the process.

Can you say the rubrics for liturgy have remained the same, but the message is diffierent each time liturgy is celebrated just as our own individual intrepretation of the liturgy varies. Again, each day is a new day, with new challenges, new lessons to learn.

As far as the question of does language both conceal and reveal God, I am not sure. I know God is revealed in the language of the liturgy, and am not sure how God is concealed.

Yes, I believe there is a difference between ritual speech and ordinary speech especially now in the Eucharistic Prayers prayed by the priests. The translation in the new Romal MIssal is closer to the original text, but it is a bit confusing.

I am so grateful for the opportunity to have shared this space with you all with Nick and Diana. I leave this session very much challenged and enriched.
God bless you all.
Diane

Re: The Liturgical Books (Feb. 29)

Arlene H. Quiogue — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 18:56:10 -0000

The Roman Missal on iPad? I shouldn't be surprised since our world is going electronic or paperless. But I hope we, the Church, would allow this kind of e-copy use for study or because of unusual circumstances (like when a printed, binded sacramentary isn't readily availabe) and not encourage this in the celebration of the Mass. I'm curious, did this priest need his Bishop's approval to use an iPad version of the R.Missal?

Last week, we looked at the large paperback book, The Rites (Pueblo Publishing). We discussed briefly that you wouldn't want to use this book, but to use one that is more of a "ceremonial" edition. In my opinion, the iPad wouldn't meet the "ceremonial-quality" or hold the same beauty as an actual printed book on an altar. The legitimate* ritual words, however, would be just as valid and holy when spoken (proclaimed), heard (received), and experienced (in response to) by how it has changed us and created us anew, bringing us closer to God and to one another. As with any out-of-print or rare book, its value usually increases. Our printed liturgical books are valuable to begin with; how much more if/when our world/our Church goes paperless!

*Canon 928: The eucharistic celebration is to be carried out in the Latin language or in another language provided that the liturgical texts have been legitimately approved.

Re: ILM Liturgy Track

Icarpentero — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 18:37:27 -0000

It was a pleasant surprise to review the liturgical books at last Wednesday’s class. Arlene and I were lucky to review the “Roman Pontifical” Liturgical book. Aside from the Baptism and Confirmation Rites, this book also included the rites in the ordination of the deacon, priest and bishops! I don’t think we will have another opportunity to hold this book in our hands. This book, in addition to all the other liturgical books, is the same book used by all the Catholic churches throughout the world. This “sameness”, I believe, is one of the many reasons that make our Church “one” as when we pray in the Nicene Creed , “One, holy, catholic and apostolic Church”.
The structure of the sacramental rites has been the same for centuries. Since the time of the apostles, we have been gathering together to listen to the word of God and celebrate the Eucharist. I have celebrated Sacred Liturgy in Spanish, Vietnamese, Tagalog, Cebuano (a different Filipino dialect). Although I didn’t understand the languages, I was able to celebrate the Mass with the assembly. I find comfort in this, knowing that I can be anywhere in the world and witness the same ritual. But even though the ritual is the same, the culture, environment, music and the musical instruments used will be different. We also bring our triumphs and failures, our happiness, sadness and losses when we come to the Eucharistic banquet. Since all these factors are different each time we celebrate Sacred Liturgy, our experiences will also be different. A passage read that did not have any meaning in the past may struck us now due to an event or situation that we have just encountered.
Our hope is that all these different experiences will help us grow in our spiritual journey and achieve our ultimate goal: Union with God.

Re: The Liturgical Books (Feb. 29)

Eleanor Cuenco — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 16:30:41 -0000

The structure of the
liturgy is the “same” because the canon of the Mass is the perpetual
re-enactment of the Last Supper where Jesus’ sacrifice for the remission of our
sins culminates in the sharing of the Eucharist. It is different depending on what “mood” we bring to the church,
when we come to celebrate in the banquet of the Lord. If our mind and heart are focused on what is happening on the
altar and how the Word of God touched us when we receive the body and blood of
Christ. What prayer do we hope to have
been answered, what sin do we hope will be forgiven? What are our thoughts when
we bring Jesus into our mind, our body and our soul? It would be different on how we experience the presence of Christ
in every liturgical celebration.
The repetitive nature
of the Mass reveals God to us through the canon. Its ritualistic language is constant and can be comforting in its
form and familiarity. Masses throughout
the world are celebrated in different languages, praising God in all His glory
in foreign tongues, yet every time we hear the Mass in any languages, we can
understand.
Jesus often spoke in
parables that can sometimes be difficult to understand (the first shall be the
last, and the last shall be the first.) The quest for spiritual enlightenment
can be a life long journey to understand the word and the will of God. Understanding can be like eating an
artichoke, we peal and peal, until we get to the heart of the matter, the
understanding of God’s message to the world.
When the priest lifts up the Host and say, “eat this bread and drink
this cup”; that is God’s language
revealed to us that He is present right there, inviting us, willing to take us
back and all we have to do is accept Him.

Ritual is defined as the
prescribed order of a religious ceremony.
The Mass is a ritual and its language, therefore, is ritualistic. Ritual speech is the Word of God. Ordinary
speech is the word of man, reflecting and reacting to the Word of God.

Re: The Liturgical Books (Feb. 29)

Nick Wagner — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 15:10:40 -0000

Hi Joyce. I am always fascinated by the contrast of ritual language and non-ritual language. It is a challenge, sometimes, to write ritual texts that are clear and compelling. However, it can be just as much of a challenge to be clear and compelling in a casual conversation. Great thoughts! Thanks for sharing them.

Re: The Liturgical Books (Feb. 29)

Nick Wagner — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 15:07:23 -0000

Hi All. This is from Joyce:

As we have talked about throughout our class even though we
hear the same prayers, petitions, readings year after year throughout history,
what we experience, what we learn, what we take with us is changed due to the
group of people who are present. As we grow, and learn we take more out of the
mass and often it depends on how the Holy Spirit is moving in us. Language can be very complex,
especially now since the new translation. Some of the ritual words are more
difficult to understand their meanings so in that sense I can see who they
conceal God. I am not sure if I had not gone to some classes to explain the new
translation if I would understand the meanings as well as I do now. By definition ritual is a religious or
solemn ceremony consisting of a series of actions performed according to a
prescribed order. So ritual speech
would be the very specific speech that makes up the parts of our mass.
Structured and in a prescribed order. The difference between that and ordinary
speech is the more casual way we talk especially to friends and family. Once
again this ritual speech can conceal the message of God because we do not
always understand the words, however, at the same time it can reveal God just
because of the fact that the message is repeated over time and we have a chance
to learn more and understand better. In the article “Rites of Justice”, I quote that stuck out tome was the five elements needed for a liturgy. In order of importance andmeaning they are the people, the bread and wine, the word, a collection for thepoor and a priest. Here we see howthe liturgy can be the same throughout history yet different every time basedon the people present and by the fact that the liturgy makes us a community. Weneed others to tell the stories, to listen with, to make dreams flesh, to passthe word on to and to extend what is already happening.

Re: The Liturgical Books (Feb. 29)

Nick Wagner — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 15:03:59 -0000

Arelene, this is a beautiful reflection on the holiness of the liturgical books. I often wonder what will happen when they all get put on an iPad. I've already heard of at least one parish (not our diocese) where the priest has put the Roman Missal on an iPad. Will we have the same sense of reverence for the "books"?

Re: The Liturgical Books (Feb. 29)

Nick Wagner — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 15:01:12 -0000

Denise, I like how you threaded this through the span of history. The liturgy--and more importantly, our faith--really is amazing when you link it to all those who have gone before us. Thanks for sharing.

Re: The Liturgical Books (Feb. 29)

Nick Wagner — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 14:58:56 -0000

Thanks Jay. I agree that we are a holy people performing a holy act!

Re: The Liturgical Books (Feb. 29)

Nick Wagner — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 14:56:46 -0000

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Rose. You've really been doing a lot of good thinking about this. Great insights!

Re: The Liturgical Books (Feb. 29)

Arlene H. Quiogue — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 02:37:19 -0000

Diana instructed us to take a look at one of our
liturgical books and find one we’re not familiar with. The following expressions were heard in class
as each of us looked into one of many ritual books made available last
Wednesday evening: “Wow! Cool!
It’s in Latin…English! Ah, how special! This has got everything in here; it’s the
whole “shebang! This is so awesome!”

Indeed they are!

Last week’s class focusing on the Liturgical Books was
very informative, stimulating, and engaging.
Learning about the hierarchy of Church documents puts into perspective
the prioritization for their implementation, how we are united as one, holy,
and apostolic Church, and the authority by which they carry. It was stimulating and engaging for us to open
up the various ritual books: looking for
the official decrees that authorizes its usage and for whom it applies to, the
forwards or introductions that specify its features and purpose, and the ritual
text and prayers themselves. In front of
me lay the “Roman Pontifical,” quite a unique sacramentary for liturgical celebrations
and ordinations used by both Bishop DuMaine and Bishop McGrath in our Cathedral Basilica. The text therein and the
context of its use and by whom, immediately called for our handling it with care
and respect. This can be said for any of our liturgical books, for in them contain the ritual words of salvation and
sanctification: the proclamation of the
Good News, the sacraments as outward signs of God’s presence in our lives, and
His invitations to receive His grace and redemptive love through His Eternal
Son and Holy Spirit. In the Second
Letter to Timothy (1:13-14), it says: “Take as your norm the sound words that you
heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. Guard this rich trust with the help of the
holy Spirit that dwells within us.”

Re: The Liturgical Books (Feb. 29)

Denise Purvis — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 22:05:29 -0000

From the time it was
instituted, our Church has changed dramatically. I wonder if the priests of the middle-ages
could imagine facing the congregation, seeing a woman on the altar, having
modern music, or seeing liturgical dance during the celebration of mass? I wonder how the priests of the renaissance
would react to a liturgy committee, bilingual masses, or a woman in charge of
the ILM?

Our church has changed with
the times. What hasn’t changed is our
fundamental belief that Jesus Christ is Lord, that Jesus Christ is the son of
God, that Jesus Christ was both God and man, and that Jesus Christ was raised
from the dead to take our sins away.
What hasn’t changed is our belief that we partake in the true body and
blood of Christ each and every time we receive communion.

The liturgy is made up of
those who partake in it. The liturgy is
made up of the personalities of the ministers who not only plan it, but carry
it out. The liturgy is made up of each
and every one of the participants that experience it. I believe that liturgy is a personal
experience, unique to the individual at that specific place, time, and point in
their lives; but it is also a communal experience of believers in Jesus Christ
and His act of salvation.

I believe that liturgy is
different every time we celebrate it because of the many variables
involved. God recognizes the unique
needs of our hearts, and connects us together as the Body of Christ. God recognizes our needs as individuals and
speaks to each of us according to the needs of our hearts.

Re: The Liturgical Books (Feb. 29)

Olegario J. Lara — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 21:11:52 -0000

To all my friends in Christ,

The past few weeks have been a wonderful
blessing and I am thankful for the time God has granted us to be together. In many ways, our time together has been a “liturgy,”
for we are holy people performing a holy act.

We have come together to give praise to
God and to develop our relationship and understanding of Him. Our class has
been an extension of our liturgical celebration at our individual parish level.

I believe that we are called forth to take
our liturgy to the next level and spread the good news of God’s salvation to
the world around us. We are called to go forth to teach and heal as true disciples
of Christ.

Please pray for my safe journey and I will
pray for you.

Re: The Liturgical Books (Feb. 29)

Rose Lue — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 00:56:11 -0000

I attended a confirmation workshop on Sunday as I am a sponsor to a friend's child. It was interesting how the speaker tried to engage the crowd by soliciting questions from the crowd. And the crowd wasn't totally into it. It got better as the workshop continued but I see now how the introduction plays an important role in getting a crowd to fully and actively participate in something. From the very beginning of welcoming him after he said good afternoon, the speaker noticed how mild in response the crowd was and he repeated his greeting of good afternoon so we can answer with more gusto. A presider has a role to play of setting up the mood at a mass. Ditto for the opening song. And throughout the entire liturgy, the presider's pacing of words, the hand action and etc, all plays a role.

It is striking how the liturgy is the same all the time.... In fact, it was a proof for me of why, as a child, I said mass was boring. The words were over my head or I just chose not to hear it or listen to it because we were so far away from where the "action" was. But now I appreciate how the liturgy is the same wherever you go. And I see value in knowing we join those who have come before us, those who are all over the world celebrating liturgy and giving praise to God, and those who will follow us in worshipping our Lord. The rituals are the same, but the body of Christ celebrating it is different every time.

And yes, it is amazing how the language can both conceal and reveal God. I read Lillian's comments and I totally agree with her! And it is amazing how we are able to recognize a truth when we hear it. Something in us is moved when someone is able to put into words something we have known or felt all along to be true. So in a way, one can also say that the language of God is understood not only by our minds but also by our hearts.

There is indeed a difference in ritual speech and ordinary speech. And liturgy's use of ritual speech was another point of why mass was boring and was filled with blah-blah-blah. But like a good novel or movie or poem, sometimes a little study, discussion, reflection, helps one understand the subject better. And I do think liturgy has to keep its standard of being a good literary art because it is the way of maintaining its essence and keeping it special.

Re: ILM Liturgy Track

Drewdiane — Wed, 29 Feb 2012 17:31:14 -0000

Another Lenten journey, and this one, as Jay put it, would not be the same without you all.

I am amazed at how much we have learned in such a short period of time. Yes, we will never look at our own parish's masses again in the same way, but we have learned will enrich us, and through our enrichment, be an example to others. This is the way we "teach" the mystery of Christ. What we have learned this semester, and looking back, over the past two and half years. How far we have come, how much we have learned, how much we have opened ourselves to God's call.

The last liturgy that was truly memorable for me was Holy Thursday two years ago. I was never open to having my feet washed, feeling embarassed and awkward. However, when I was invited to be among the first to have my feet washed by our parochial vicar I did not hesitate. Understanding the humility of this action, both by the person washing your feet and the person who is having their feet washed, made it possible to participate in this humble act. It brought home the beginning of the message of how much Jesus sacrificed for us and what he gave up for us, and how we can in a simple, human gesture humble ourselves and truly reach out to our fellow christians.

When I participated in this foot washing, it was a humbling experience, but isn't that what faith is? A humbling journey, where you recognize your own sins, and forgive those who have sinned against you. A woman came up to me the other day and she told me she remembered me from that night. I had washed her feet. She was feeling awkward, and she said I made it easier for her to participate. Our meeting was no accident. She is now actively involved in the mass where I am the worship coordinator.

God works in mysterious ways, and God's timing is always perfect.

I will never forget that night. It was another layer peeled away on my spiritual journey. Hopefully, I will continue to act humbly in my faith. One thing I have learned is to be truly more respectful of what others may be feeling when they attend mass. I do not know the reason that brings them to mass, but I do know it is my responsibility to provide the best liturgy I can by example. See you all later, and may God continue to shed His grace on you during this Lent.

Re: Liturgy and Catechesis (Feb. 15)

Olegario Jay Lara — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 03:17:31 -0000

I wish everyone a blessed Lenten season! This journey wouldn’t be the same without you.

During the late morning on the first Sunday of Lent, I attended a local parish mass as a guest. The candidates and catechumen of this parish’s RCIA program were presented. Each individual was asked to briefly describe his faith journey to that point in his life and why he wanted to become a member of the body of Christ. I thought to myself, “I am happy I am not up there right now!”

The resounding theme described a personal desire to accept the Kingdom of God in his life and the need to achieve this by being a member of Christ’s church on earth. Amazing!!! That is exactly what we have been learning in our liturgy class this semester. We must participate together in the living body of Christ to make it truly alive.

I contemplated this dichotomy. To begin with, we each make a personal choice to love God and develop a relationship with Him. However, we can only truly begin to know and love God through his community of believers. Our liturgy is truly an instrument of participation, and the candidates and catechumen made it all so clear in their testimonies.

We are here to participate in each others lives. We are here to journey together. We are here to worship God together. We are here to die together. We are here to find eternal life through Jesus Christ together. We are not here to destroy faith in each other. We are not here to judge each other.

The candidates and catechumen think that they are learning from the catechists, liturgists, priests, seminarians and congregation. I think the opposite. I think we as the body of Christ are learning more from the “non-Catholics” about being Catholic. As strange as this sounds, I believe it is true.

Now, when I meet the edge of chaos and look back, I can see how far I have come. I can do this because others are on the same journey. I can do this because someone got my attention to look back and see how my journey has evolved. I can do this because we participate in each other’s lives. I can do this because God wants me to see.

Re: Liturgy and Catechesis (Feb. 15)

Nick Wagner — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:19:19 -0000

Eleanor, thanks for focusing on the principle of full, conscious, and active participation. I think if all of our parishes could reach that goal, we would have amazing liturgy everywhere.

Re: Liturgy and Catechesis (Feb. 15)

Nick Wagner — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:16:20 -0000

Thanks for sharing this beautiful description of your experience of Easter Vigil, Joyce. The Vigil is the most powerful ritual the church has. I do have a question though. Are you sure the signing of the senses happened at the Vigil? That's usually part of the Rite of Welcome at the beginning of the process.

Re: Liturgy and Catechesis (Feb. 15)

Nick Wagner — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:11:24 -0000

Arlene, this is a beautiful reflection on the power of the liturgy to make us all one. Thanks for giving us something to think about.

Re: Liturgy and Catechesis (Feb. 15)

Nick Wagner — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:09:22 -0000

Rose, you have hit the nail on the head. Liturgy is all about marking the milestones in our lives. Sometimes they are the milestones. And were are always different because of them.

Re: Liturgy and Catechesis (Feb. 15)

Nick Wagner — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 16:07:14 -0000

What a powerful story Denise. Thanks so much for sharing.

Re: Liturgy and Catechesis (Feb. 15)

Eleanor Cuenco — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 12:54:43 -0000

I helped out in distributing ashes last Ash Wednesday. This was my first time and I was really into
it. The presider’s reflection centered
on more prayers, more generosity and more fasting. As I make a sign of the cross on the foreheads and repeatedly
say, “turn away from sin and be faithful to the gospel”, what came to my mind
was our lesson on full and conscious act of participation. I realized that when
we received the sign of the cross on the forehead, it is a sign that God is
calling us again to establish our broken relationship with Him, a sign to turn
away from sin. To renew our relationship, we must fully and consciously
participate to enter with Him in his sufferings, to enter into a more prayerful
life, to become more generous with our time or talent or earnings when called
upon and to become more detach in anything material that would destroy our
relationship with Him. We also have to
make a conscious effort to hear His word, and to reflect on how it would apply
to us in our daily lives. The liturgy
of the Word focused on self-denial, a call for us to worship him more, enter
into a more prayerful life, so that we may receive His message and share
the good news to our community and make ourselves instrument of God when
we serve others. When we make a
full and conscious act of participation, we receive the light of understanding
that would lead us to the pathway of conversion. We have to die from our old self (our cross), to experience being
born again (our Easter) as a new person. Lent prepares us for this
fulfillment. This lent season would be
different for me because of the knowledge I learned from our class on the best
principle of liturgy.